jeff
Open your eyes look and see B.I.B Mabbey's Delight
Posts: 187
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Post by jeff on Jan 5, 2017 18:38:23 GMT
The difference is that you obviously bought several copies of the GB 7"s with the sole intention of immediately flipping them to try to get records much older and more expensive. Your original post doesn't ask to trade the GB for anything recent, you're asking for Together, Start Today, PX etc or you're offering it for sale for much, much more than you paid for it. Of course you know this but you're just arguing semantics.
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Post by geoff on Jan 5, 2017 18:48:01 GMT
The reason people miss out on a record is that another person decided to buy several copies of said record just to flip them for a large amount of money and the people who missed out on the record initially should then be happy about having to pay 10, 15, 20 times of what the original price was? How is that a desirable scenario? I'll gladly give my money to a band and label because they put in all the hard work. Why would I want to throw money at some random person just because they were quicker clicking on 'buy'? Of course, if you pay that amount of money, that's your decision. Supply and demand, yaddayadda, but inflating prices like that - especially on a board where people usually look out for and help each other - feels very wrong to me. so find me someone who is looking out for me selling me a record i missed on for 10$ and i will sell you mine for 10$ as well. sorry, i'm not getting the argument here. it's better we agree to disagree! no. you dont get it. this is hardcore. we hold ourselves to different standards. we take of our own, even more so on this board. you can use the line of "agree to disagree" with your coworkers, but that wont fly here. you clearly bought several copies to flip or profit off of other hardcore kids. thats weak.
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Post by geoff on Jan 5, 2017 18:51:01 GMT
might i also add, you came to this board to try and take advantage of us is messed up.
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Post by orangerory on Jan 5, 2017 19:03:41 GMT
My $.02 -
I messaged xneroazzuroz because I was interested in this record. We talked about a trade deal but then he told me what he was being offered and I didn't want to trade something in that value or pay that much so I passed. It was no big deal. I wish him well. I don't think he should take less simply because "this is hardcore." We all sell or trade records for much more than we paid for them - it doesn't make a difference if it's one day, one year, or twenty years later. I don't think anyone would say, "well, you paid $3.00 for that record, you can't sell it for more now." And good for him that he jumped on the Coretex deal and was able to buy a few extras to trade for some other record he wanted. I've bought extra records to do that, too - as I'm sure most of us have. You're not more "hardcore" because you only bought one when you could have bought extras to trade. If someone is willing to trade a Together comp or pay $250 - great - do it. I would not, but we're all different.
And it's not like this is some limited, one time record none of us have either - it's a variation of a record that's been pressed dozens of times and is still available. If you want the particular color because you're a completist - maybe it's worth more to you.
Anyway - I don't think anyone needs to get up in arms about the fact that someone was able to get extra copies of a record that you wanted a copy of and the market now commands a premium price for it. SOIA Conne went for a lot at first but came down, too - I'm sure this will, as well.
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Post by deluxxx777 on Jan 5, 2017 19:16:07 GMT
I'm disagree for 2 reason : first I don't understand the difference between a new and a old record, since I love every single version of a record in the same way. The soia conne 7" is a perfect example because is a "new" record but I haven't seen it pop up often, I offered $100 here but it was considered a low ball offer... Second, if you sell it for $1000 and then you find a buyer and both are happy what's the problem? Collecting is now a business, last together first press on ebay was sold for $320...so if you want this record you must have $320. Someone has instead a record for sale or trade to get $320,again what's the problem? If you don't want to pay 250 for that record, just don't buy it, it's that simple. Core tex is the guilty The reason people miss out on a record is that another person decided to buy several copies of said record just to flip them for a large amount of money and the people who missed out on the record initially should then be happy about having to pay 10, 15, 20 times of what the original price was? How is that a desirable scenario? I'll gladly give my money to a band and label because they put in all the hard work. Why would I want to throw money at some random person just because they were quicker clicking on 'buy'? Of course, if you pay that amount of money, that's your decision. Supply and demand, yaddayadda, but inflating prices like that - especially on a board where people usually look out for and help each other - feels very wrong to me. In fact he put the record from €250 on discogs, not here, and he said the value of that record doesn't matches for many records in his list. Did you contacted him for a better deal here? I'm just saying that once the record is gone, is gone and as I said my $100 offer for the soia 7" was considered a low ball offer right here. And 2500% is uncool and 600/700% is cool? But it's just my opinion don't want to start a rumble, I'm a quiet person!😊
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Post by chungking48 on Jan 6, 2017 0:01:22 GMT
There are a lot of issues being raised here. I agree with some but not all. But overall it's an interesting discussion.
What's interesting is that some people seem to think that buying extra copies of a record isn't really acceptable, whereas others think it is ok. Some think it's ok to buy a record and flip it for a profit, other's don't. But whichever side you're on, I think it's interesting to ponder where you think the lines should be drawn. I mean, if (for whatever reason) most people here would honestly admit that picking up two copies of something is ok (and the reason I assume that is that I know for a fact that half the people in this thread have done so at some point in the past), then it makes me wonder whether there is a limit of how many copies you can have and still be considered acceptable. I mean, is 2 the limit of acceptability and 3 too many for any record? Or does the number of copies of a record that it is acceptable to buy depend on how many copies were pressed? Or does it depend on what someone then does with their extra copies? I mean, we're all collectors on here and we all own 2 or more copies of some (rare) records, so by definition we all kind of agree in principle that there's nothing wrong with a person owning more than one copy of a record if that's what they want to do. We even applaud it. So whilst we would all think it's ok to own two copies of something, does this still apply if there are only 8 copies in total? I mean, is it acceptable for one person to own 25% of the entire pressing? Part of the reason I ask is that there are at least three records in my collection for which I own two test pressings for, out of a total of about ten copies. And even I'm not sure if this makes me stupid, lucky, a cool collector or a total dick.
Similarly, I'm sure that we would probably all agree that it's ok to own 6 different Warzone 7"s. But that's generally if they are all different. So what if someone happened to somehow own 6 clear Warzone 7"s? Would we think that was cool, or would some of us think that somehow was selfish and the person in question should share the wealth and let a couple of copies go to fellow collectors?
I'm nto asking for answers. I'm just saying that this is interesting to think about.
Anyway, going back to this GB 7", what if a person bought three copies with the intention of flipping them, but then their 3 copies arrived and all had different stamps on, so the person then decided to keep them? Would it be ok to keep three because they're technically different and collecting variations is ok, or would it be a dick move because that person is selfishly depriving two other people of a chance of owning a rare and popular record? And even if we all agreed that it would be ok for one person to keep three copies, then what we're effectively saying is that it's fine for one person to buy three copies AS LONG AS THEY KEEP THEM FOR THEMSELVES... which, when you think about it, even though we are collectors, is definitely a little bit weird. If you don't think so, try explaining to a non record collector why you have three copies of the same thing!). But again, where is the line drawn? If it's soehow ok to own three different copies, is it similarly ok to own six copies? Or ten copies? Or fifteen?
I'm not intending to start a debate or argument, because it's largely pointless. I think all I'm saying is that I find this thread interesting for the range of issues raised and the different opinions. It highlights that there are, in a way, unwritten 'rules' for collecting that we all expect each other to know and abide by, yet it seems pretty obvious that we've all interpreted the rules differently.
I will now leave you with this final piece of information - when this GB 7" went on sale I went to the Coretex website and expected the record to be limited to one per person, but I didn't see anything saying this. So to test it out I tried adding ten copies to my cart. A couple of seconds later I realised that there wasn't a limit as I had ten copies in my cart. TEN!
I won't say anymore, but it's interesting for me to think that you're all now sat there judging me as either cool or a dick based on your own interpretation of the rules of our game...
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Post by lordxhumungus on Jan 6, 2017 1:50:02 GMT
I'm just going to sit back and enjoy this discussion. I love you all.
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xjoergx
No time for optimism
Posts: 106
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Post by xjoergx on Jan 6, 2017 7:58:49 GMT
@chungking48 did you order them?
After I realized that there wasn´t a limitiation, my first thought was: "I am stupid, at least I had to order five to get free shipping". But it was too late. haha
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xjoergx
No time for optimism
Posts: 106
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Post by xjoergx on Jan 6, 2017 8:00:06 GMT
might i also add, you came to this board to try and take advantage of us is messed up. This was also my first thought.
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paolo
Duane loves Gina
Posts: 432
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Post by paolo on Jan 6, 2017 10:49:15 GMT
just a few random thoughts: 1) this situation is taking out the dark, negative side of us record collectors: after all, we are all a bit greedy, selfish, we want to be the only owner of certain rarities, we want everybody to look at us with envy, "wow, look what collection he's got, look what rare record he's scored"... we want to be the elite, we want to be one step ahead of everybody. To wuote Poison Idea, "record collectors are pretentious assholes". 2)said that, hardcore is also all about friendship, about helping each other, abount making unknown friends from all over the world.....so in a situation like this, if I were Marcus and scored 10 copies, I would give most of them to my closest "potential" friends, the people who shared my passion for collecting over the years, the people who I kinda "know" from ages. Soetimes leaning an helping hand is priceless. 3) I would give to friends most of them, but not all. Let's be honest, each of us, if could score more than 1 copy, wouldn't have limited himself. I'm sure many people on here have multiple copies... What I wouldn't have done is coming out the same day I receive them, in front of all the people who couldn't get one, showing my copies in your face, asking 250 euro straightaway, or a Project X from 1988. That's been an offensive move, that pissed off everybody. This board is made of people who usually have some "ethics".... 4) The big blame is to be put on Coretex.... I hope that if Rev is going to make more collaborations with them, will grant not to repeat a situation like this anymore. They knew that they would handle an instant Revelation collector item, still were "naive" to let 30 people get 100 copies of them.
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Post by xneroazzurox on Jan 6, 2017 11:44:45 GMT
To your point 3. You are twisting my words. I said these are my major wants, I would consider a lot records more than these, for example a SOIA conne press I didn't think of the moment I posted this. That would be fair if I understand people here correctly, cause it's a new record as well and it's not from 1988. And of course I would add to a PX. As I added to a together comp I traded one of the connes for. We left both happy, so I still don't really see the problem.
Giving the unrealistic case you went to a record fair and would see theee LES copies for $10 each because the seller didn't know better I am sure everyone on this board would buy all three and sell them for much more or trade it for something on their wantlist. Then it is OK. And it's OK if I buy a copy for me and then decide a year later I don't want it anymore or need a quick $.
I'm really missing logic here.
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Post by minoratheart on Jan 6, 2017 11:45:23 GMT
The reason people miss out on a record is that another person decided to buy several copies of said record just to flip them for a large amount of money and the people who missed out on the record initially should then be happy about having to pay 10, 15, 20 times of what the original price was? How is that a desirable scenario? I'll gladly give my money to a band and label because they put in all the hard work. Why would I want to throw money at some random person just because they were quicker clicking on 'buy'? Of course, if you pay that amount of money, that's your decision. Supply and demand, yaddayadda, but inflating prices like that - especially on a board where people usually look out for and help each other - feels very wrong to me. so find me someone who is looking out for me selling me a record i missed on for 10$ and i will sell you mine for 10$ as well. sorry, i'm not getting the argument here. it's better we agree to disagree! I'm really sorry that you haven't made the experience of people helping you out so far. But if you're unhappy about this situation, then maybe it's you who should change something about that. Most things in life are a two-way street. Just saying. I personally couldn't help you out on this issue because I never pick up two copies of a new rare record. If I want a copy, I'll get one for myself and that's it. The only exception I'll make is when someone asks me to help them out. I have done so in the past and will do so in the future. And I know about others on this board and beyond this board who have acted the same way. You're right of course, you're entitled to your opinion. Just like I am to mine.
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Post by minoratheart on Jan 6, 2017 11:55:09 GMT
The reason people miss out on a record is that another person decided to buy several copies of said record just to flip them for a large amount of money and the people who missed out on the record initially should then be happy about having to pay 10, 15, 20 times of what the original price was? How is that a desirable scenario? I'll gladly give my money to a band and label because they put in all the hard work. Why would I want to throw money at some random person just because they were quicker clicking on 'buy'? Of course, if you pay that amount of money, that's your decision. Supply and demand, yaddayadda, but inflating prices like that - especially on a board where people usually look out for and help each other - feels very wrong to me. In fact he put the record from €250 on discogs, not here, and he said the value of that record doesn't matches for many records in his list. Did you contacted him for a better deal here? I'm just saying that once the record is gone, is gone and as I said my $100 offer for the soia 7" was considered a low ball offer right here. And 2500% is uncool and 600/700% is cool? But it's just my opinion don't want to start a rumble, I'm a quiet person!😊 No, I haven't contacted him. Why would I? Maybe I already bought a copy, maybe I'm not even interested in this record, or maybe I don't want to give the seller my money at all. Maybe it's just the principal that's at stake for me.
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Post by xneroazzurox on Jan 6, 2017 12:00:39 GMT
oh i have made the experience, and i'm helping friends out all the time, travelling a lot for shows and bring tour presses, limited stuff all the time. and sometimes i profit from that and get stuff myself.
this time, after i purchased i just sent the coretex link to my best friends and they got a copy for themselves, so i trade my spares for something i search for a long time instead.
funny how easily everybody seems to know me so well just because of one post on the internet.
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Post by geoff on Jan 6, 2017 13:54:36 GMT
oh i have made the experience, and i'm helping friends out all the time, travelling a lot for shows and bring tour presses, limited stuff all the time. and sometimes i profit from that and get stuff myself. this time, after i purchased i just sent the coretex link to my best friends and they got a copy for themselves, so i trade my spares for something i search for a long time instead. funny how easily everybody seems to know me so well just because of one post on the internet. no one is acting like they know you. were just expressing our opinions on what you are doing. what you are doing is buying three limited records and flipping 2 of them one day after you got them. personally i think you came here to try and take advantage of the board. i understand buying three records and keeping them, but you clearly you are here trying to take advantage of the situation.
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Post by deluxxx777 on Jan 6, 2017 14:18:38 GMT
Time ago, I've asked here for the ime tdb on red, and said I would paid a good price, above the average. No answer... When I posted a offer of $500 3-4 people contacted me immediately, I know that I offered 3 time the real price but nobody said "hey give me $300: $500 is way too much for this record".I'm still happy with my record, and I never saw this record pop up from that time.I'm still happy that people contacted me, and I've dealt with some guys here and 9/10 they ask for their records the highest eBay auction; sometime I've bought and sometimes not.no problem, I don't like to judge people, this is not hardcore. We talking about a GB 7" in fact 250 copies. Probably not whort in a trade whit a together. But it's easy that some people give to that record high expectations in value terms. I would like a more friendly approach, something like : hey man the price is really high, what do you think about €70/100? "No, thanks" Ok, good luck!
Isn't a positive way of thinking ?
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Post by brettv79 on Jan 6, 2017 16:50:00 GMT
what DELUXXX777 just said. if we're gonna bitch about how 1 record was sold/bought when it came out and the prices then we better check ourselves and/or bitch about every price of every record because in reality no 7" is "worth" more than the $3-5 it was brand new and no LP is worth more than the $10-$15 it was brand new. OR something is worth whatever someone will pay..like that IME on red for $500. either way, let's not be jealous too much
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Post by Raven X Army on Jan 6, 2017 18:51:48 GMT
There are some very interesting points being discussed. I agree with some and disagree with some. There's one aspect that none of you talked about yet, that I personally find mildly annoying. Plebs flipping records aside, what's the general consensus on record labels flipping their own releases?
The usual ebay auctions that go:
"From the vaults of (whatever record label) we bring you now out of press (whatever record)
Every bigger record label did it: REV, B9, Rivalry, Jeff Lasich, although a lovely fella must have manufactured about 12548 different HAVE HEART pressings out of 1, 2, 3 or 4 etc that were never even available through the bottled up website, all went straight to ebay.
It happened to me more than once that I made the preorder, say, ordered 3 different colours of one pressing (let's take a typical case of 200, 400 and 1000), sometimes within MINUTES of the preorders going online, and dissapointingly received 2 copies of the 400 and one copy of the 1000 (or even the other way around) only so that weeks/months later I'd buy the 200 version from the very record label that released it, on ebay, for 3-4 times the price.
One case that stands out: I once won a BETRAYED record off one of the Kyle's ebay sales and not only have I had to pay several times the store price, I received the record with the longest pube I've ever seen stuck to the surface of the LP as I pulled it out of the dust sleeve haha...
I never touched that LP again...
Anyway, I'm digressing. What I want to know is, if a record label makes a pressing of a 100 or 200, do they have an obligation to deliver every copy to the public? Or is it OK for them to keep 10, 20, 40% for later ebay flips?
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Post by chris2far on Jan 6, 2017 21:31:51 GMT
I can go Pick up a Package from Coretex tomorrow. Lets see what i get in there. Should be At least one GB in it 😜
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Post by chungking48 on Jan 6, 2017 22:24:29 GMT
It's nice that nobody came out and called me a dick for buying ten copies. I think generally it's because the people on this board are all pretty fine people.
HOWEVER... just in case anyone was thinking that I am indeed a massive penis but didn't want to say it, let me state for the record that I did NOT buy ten copies. I put them in my cart to see if I could, but then took them out again... partly because I think that ten would be a step too far, and unfair on other people, but also partly because I would have been worried that Coretex would have cancelled my order and sent me nothing as punishment for being a total cock.
But let me also say that if I had have bought and received ten copies, then honestly I would have helped out 7 people on here for cost price + postage, kept one copy for my own collection, and then (being totally honest) I probably would have kept two to trade. So in a way, I AM that much of a dick I guess.
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xvx
Zip, zang, boom, your'e outta here
Posts: 54
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Post by xvx on Jan 7, 2017 0:01:35 GMT
so find me someone who is looking out for me selling me a record i missed on for 10$ and i will sell you mine for 10$ as well. sorry, i'm not getting the argument here. it's better we agree to disagree! no. you dont get it. this is hardcore. we hold ourselves to different standards. we take of our own, even more so on this board. you can use the line of "agree to disagree" with your coworkers, but that wont fly here. you clearly bought several copies to flip or profit off of other hardcore kids. thats weak. lol what? I have never heard of people taking care of other people in hardcore, much less in record collecting circles. I've seen a good amount of ripping off and sketch, especially when it comes to those desirable Rev records. I've also had people sweet talk me into getting them an overseas item, when I asked them to return the favor, nothing. I've also had people trying to give me that "hardcore family" crap so I would go down on a price. Not going to happen ever again, because what are we, friends? I'm also amazed at how record collectors like vultures seem to wait for that fellow collector to fall on hard times so they can score. I don't get this at all. I don't see a difference asking for a ridiculous amount for this record as it is done for so many other records right here on this board. It was done that way on the B9 and Livewire board years ago, it's that way on ebay and discogs to this day. This is hardcore. EDIT: It just dawned on me how ridiculous it is to talk "(hardcore) ethics" on a board for (Rev) record collectors.
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circlestorm69
This record is gonna be a 12 inch
ONCE I CRY
Posts: 541
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Post by circlestorm69 on Jan 7, 2017 22:47:44 GMT
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paolo
Duane loves Gina
Posts: 432
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Post by paolo on Jan 9, 2017 9:25:10 GMT
...and another one up on Discogs for 225 euro. Great job Coretex !
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xjoergx
No time for optimism
Posts: 106
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Post by xjoergx on Jan 9, 2017 11:06:48 GMT
...and another one up on Discogs for 225 euro. Great job Coretex ! Don´t blame Coretex for that all the time. They sold a maximum of two copies per customer. One for yourself and one for a friend. If people are flipping...it´s not a Coretex fault.
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Post by deluxxx777 on Jan 9, 2017 11:49:37 GMT
...and another one up on Discogs for 225 euro. Great job Coretex ! Don´t blame Coretex for that all the time. They sold a maximum of two copies per customer. One for yourself and one for a friend. If people are flipping...it´s not a Coretex fault.
No bullshit,some people got 3 copies, ck48 had 10 on is cart... 1 per person is a must if you sell only 100 copies. I blame core tex. I knew this issue would be happened and they knew it as well. It was done intentionally. I hope that rev will sell that record in the right way.
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